Or — Why did we publish the article “Tyler van Houwelingen Apologetics for Rossi”?
Or — Mike McKubre says 1st Rossi 1MW customer was not US military.
((( UPDATE )))
This article has struck a cord? Ruffled some feathers? Maybe even caused some people to THINK for a change! Anyway the fallout is being spread all over the internet. Peter Gluck sent an email blasting Gary for his article. You can read his email and our response by clicking on the story title below.
Gary just received this e-mail from Peter Gluck.
At the end of the e-mail Peter says:
First of all Gary never said people should not talk about Rossi.
What Gary did say was that HOW people talk about Rossi clearly puts them into one of two classes, either for or against Rossi and his fraud and scam.
There is much evidence with supporting facts that clearly show that the e-Cat project of Andrea Rossi is nothing but a fraud and scam.
While at the same time there is NO evidence or facts to show that what Andrea Rossi is doing is true legitimate science and technology, based on CF/LENR.
Even though we have been enthusiastic supporters of the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project and the work of people like Russ Gries at RWGresearch, their work is a good way for people to learn about the open source way of doing research, we think our article about Tyler may have given some people the wrong impression. Please read this article to understand our position and why we wrote the article “Tyler van Houwelingen Apologetics for Rossi.”
There are two types of people working hand in hand with Andrea Rossi and his e-Cat Farce, fraud and swindle. The two types are the Rossi promoters/allies and Rossi partners. There is no middle ground in this, because even if you say you are neutral, by that fact you then become one who encourages Rossi. If you speak and/or write about Andrea Rossi in any way and you do not speak out against Rossi and his fraud and scam, using more than just a disclaimer, then you are or become either – one of his partners or one of his promoters/allies.
If you write articles, books, stories, have websites or produce videos that basically contain a lot of what “Rossi says or what other people say about Rossi,” or if you speak in videos, at seminars or conferences, on the radio, TV or the internet about what “Rossi says or what other people say about Rossi,” even if you use disclaimers, than you are promoting, encouraging, and supporting Rossi.
On one side you have those who promote, ally with, and encourage Rossi by being “for Rossi,” “being neutral,” or “being a partner”; on the other side you have those that speak out against Rossi. The fence separating the two sides is so narrow and so tall now, that no person can walk it.
Just using some type of disclaimer when writing or talking about Rossi, here are a few examples that been used, but there are many more just like them, “Rossi’s claims have not been validated,” “are claimed,” “still need to be validated by third party tests,” “not official yet,” “people are misled by promises of Rossi,” “have not been adequately validated,” etc., is not enough, that just puts you into the neutral category, which puts you onto the side that is promoting, allying with, and encouraging Andrea Rossi and his fraud.
Why do you think Rossi, on his blog, never objects about anyone when they use disclaimers when they are talking or writing about Rossi and the e-Cat? It is real simple, it is because they become Rossi’s puppets, his disciples, his pawns, they are encouraging and promoting Rossi, sometimes without even knowing it.
Just go back and look on Rossi’s blog, at all of those times when Rossi really goes ballistic and attacks someone, calling them snakes and clowns, usually by using all caps, it only happens when someone calls a spade a spade, and tells the truth about Rossi and his e-Cat fraud and scam. And the reason that is the only time he does it, is because he knows that is the only type of writing or speaking that can do him any harm, by shining the light on the details of his scam and showing how his fraud operation is constructed and is being played out on the real life stage.
Sometimes it seems with the dumbed down educational system today people are trained to use words without even stopping to think about the meaning of the words they use. Just apply the meaning of these words below every time you read or hear something about Rossi. What you are reading or hearing, does it spell out that his project is a scam or fraud? Or does it say we just don’t know? If what you are reading or hearing says they don’t know, then that means, in their mind, Rossi could just as easily be legit, which contracts the facts, and everything Rossi has said and done throughout his life, especially during the years from 2007 onward, about the e-Cat Farce. Every time you talk about Rossi and his e-Cat, unless you are pointedly skeptical, then you are promoting, furthering, and encouraging Rossi’s project no matter whether you think so or not. The critical words used in this article will be defined below:
verb (used with object), pro·mot·ed, pro·mot·ing.
1. to help or encourage to exist or flourish; further.
2. to advance in rank, dignity, position, etc.
3. to aid in organizing (business undertakings).
4. to encourage the sales, acceptance, etc., of (a product), especially through advertising or other publicity.
Quite often it helps when trying to understand the meaning of a word to look at the synonyms and antonyms.
1. abet, back, forward, advance, assist, help, support. 2. elevate, raise, exalt.
1. discourage, obstruct. 2. demote, degrade, abase.
World English Dictionary
1. to further or encourage the progress or existence of
2. to raise to a higher rank, status, degree, etc
3. to urge the adoption of; work for: to promote reform
4. to encourage the sale of (a product) by advertising or securing financial support
verb (used with object), en·cour·aged, en·cour·ag·ing.
1. to inspire with courage, spirit, or confidence.
2. to stimulate by assistance, approval, etc.
3. to promote, advance, or foster.
1. embolden, hearten, reassure. 2. urge; support, aid, help.
1. discourage, dishearten.
World English Dictionary
1. to inspire (someone) with the courage or confidence (to do something)
2. to stimulate (something or someone to do something) by approval or help; support
1. a person who shares or is associated with another in some action or endeavor; sharer; associate.
a. a person associated with another or others as a principal or a contributor of capital in a business or a joint venture, usually sharing its risks and profits.
b. special partner.
3. silent partner.
World English Dictionary
1. an ally or companion: “a partner in crime”
2. a member of a partnership
1.to be or cause to be a partner (of)
verb (used with object)
1. to unite formally, as by treaty, league, marriage, or the like (usually followed by with or to ).
2. to associate or connect by some mutual relationship, as resemblance or friendship.
3. a person, group, or nation that is associated with another or others for some common cause or purpose.
4. a person who associates or cooperates with another; supporter.
unify, join, combine, wed, partner, confederate, friend, aide, accomplice, accessory, assistant, abettor, colleague, coadjutor, auxiliary, helper.
enemy, foe, adversary.
World English Dictionary
— vb (usually foll by to or with ) , -lies , -lying , -lied
1. to unite or be united, esp formally, as by treaty, confederation, or marriage
2. ( tr; usually passive ) to connect or be related, as through being similar or compatible
— n , -lies , -lying , -lied , -lies
3. a country, person, or group allied with another
4. a plant, animal, substance, etc, closely related to another in characteristics or form
What most people do not know is that the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project was most likely patterned after The Open Source LENR Project© at http://opensourcelenr.com/ A project conceptualized and started by Gary Wright. Why do we say this? Because Gary and his website was brought to the attention of the LENR community at the Cold Fusion Symposium at Williamsburg LENRS-12 1-3 July, 2012. It is mentioned on page 21 of this report:
“LENR Market Development Technology of the (near) Future?
Jim Dunn — ILENRS-12 Symposium July 2012”
Gary was invited to attend this symposium by Mr. David J. French the patent attorney who writes on http://coldfusionnow.org/ who was one of the speakers there, but unfortunately Gary was not able to attend.
Ruby had a link to The Open Source LENR Project© at http://opensourcelenr.com/ on the http://coldfusionnow.org website for quite awhile but took it down just about the time the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project started.
The Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project had its beginnings at ICCF-17. That is when the group was formed and even some of the clips of people supporting the project were taken at ICCF-17
We feel the Martin Fleischmann Memorial Project (MFMP) has a lot of promise and have been very enthusiastic about its potential, but as more time goes by doubts are starting to creep in. The final straw for Gary was when the video called “MFMP collaboration – Tyler visits US Cell” was posted on the MFMP website on 09 November 2012. It was because of that video that Gary started writing the article “Tyler van Houwelingen Apologetics for Rossi”? and posted it on http://shutdownrossi.com/.
Anyone who reads a few of the articles on http://shutdownrossi.com/ knows how Gary feels about the FACT that Rossi is a fraud and a scammer, swindling people out of their hard earned money. Also when you read what is written at http://opensourcelenr.com/ you can get a good idea of what Gary believes about CF/LENR. As time goes by, it is becoming all to clear the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community is afraid to police itself and is allowing scam artists like Rossi to be a part of and supported by the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community. This was understandable but still not excusable in 2010/2011, but no person since November 1, 2011, that is a part of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community should be giving any support to, or even mentioning Andrea Rossi and the e-Cat unless it is to talk about how he is a fraud and is hurting the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community until such time that Rossi provides true independent 3rd party confirmation of his claims from multiple sources. Don’t believe us? Just read on to learn just how the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community is becoming promoters and partners in Rossi’s scam and swindle project, the e-Cat. By “promoters and partners” in this context we mean anyone or any organization who has invested money in the Rossi e-Cat scam, is a business partner with Rossi, or someone who promotes, encourages, endorses, speaks or writes about Andrea Rossi and the e-Cat in a positive or neutral way, even if they use disclaimers; or generally refuses to call a spade a spade. (In relation to the fact that Andrea Rossi and his e-Cat project is a scam and a swindle.)
“To “call a spade a spade” is to speak honestly and directly about a topic, specifically topics that others may avoid speaking about due to their sensitivity or embarrassing nature. Brewer’s Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (1913) defines it as:
“ To be outspoken, blunt, even to the point of rudeness; to call things by their proper names without any “beating about the bush”.”
PART 1 – “Cold Fusion Symposium at Williamsburg LENRS-12”
For this chapter (scene) of the Rossi, e-Cat Farce we will start at the “Cold Fusion Symposium at Williamsburg LENRS-12” held on 1-3 July, 2012. The information on the official website about this Symposium is not available anymore. If you search on the official website at http://www.cvent.com/ you will just this message.
International Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Symposium, ILENRS-12
The page you are requesting from this event is no longer available. To find out information about upcoming events, feel free to contact the planner directly.
Also all of the original links in all of the articles abut the Symposium that point to this website are now dead. But all is not lost, there is still a lot of information out there about this Symposium.
Mr. David J. French who spoke at the Symposium wrote a nice article here:
We did get a summary here at LENR-CANR.org:
“International Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Symposium April 28, 2012
International Low Energy Nuclear Reactions Symposium, ILENRS-12
The College of William and Mary, Sadler Center, Williamsburg, Virginia
July 1-3, 2012
Low Energy Nuclear Reactions (LENR) offer the prospect of clean, inexpensive, limitless, nonfossil renewable energy. The symposium will review LENR’s current theoretical and experimental status, including updating recent results. Expert panel discussions will evaluate the present state of the art and define future directions, including establishment of criteria for creating university-based, state-of-the-art LENR research and development centers.”
Also on that website the following documents are available, all slides of talks given at that Symposium:
So basically the Symposium was to recap the state of the art in CF/LENR and have experts at panel discussions about what to do next. So was the Rossi e-Cat scam mentioned? If so in what context? Since we did not attend, we will use the proceedings for our quotes. In no particular order.
Ahern, B.S. Energy Localization The key to Understanding Energy in Nanotechnology & Nature – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Bushnell, D. LENR and NASA – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Chauvin, N. LENR Powered Electric Vehicles. – Parts I-III were a basic overview of electric vehicles. Then we get to the LENR part.
IV. LENR POWER SOURCE FOR EV
Companies like Defkalion Green Technology or Leonardo Corp. are starting to advertise LENR generators delivering thermal power ranging from 5 to 45 kW in a controlled and stable way with a COP between 6 and over 30. These reactors, based on pressurized hydrogen loaded nickel reactions, are claimed to work continuously for 6 months with one charge of nickel and hydrogen fuel.
If you are going to dream about some future possible technology why not just go and make a list of every possible magnetic motor, gravity wheel, or other free energy device and include them in your presentation? They have just as much of a chance of being real as anything from Andrea Ross.
Except from kilowatt range LENR generators that still need to be validated by third party tests, all the other technology bricks – thermoelectric converter and electric cars including battery storage – are all available on the market with a large variety of solutions. Such self powered electric would be really an ideal car as it has the potential to cost less to manufacture than a regular ICE car, to require less maintenance, to reduce considerably the fuel costs, to be driven anywhere and anytime without requiring an infrastructure – gas stations or electrical charging stations – and, cherry on the cake, to be sustainable for the planet and green as it would be true zero emission. It would only require to refuel the nickel and hydrogen fuel every 6 months or every year for a cost of $100 to $200.
Therefore, it is possible to imagine that commercial version of such LENR powered cars, clean, affordable and simple to use could become available about 4 to 5 years after the validation and certification of kW scale LENR thermal generators. The value proposition for a customer would be far better than what is proposed with current electric cars and could drastically accelerate the adoption rate of zero emission vehicles. We also believe that a first prototype can be built by end of 2013.
In conclusion, the application of LENR generators for cars makes sense even if it is probably the most complicated application within the transportation industry. Similar solutions would obviously be also very interesting for other electric vehicles like trains, electric boats and electric planes.
Claytor, T.N., et al. Search for Excess Heat and Tritium in Nickel Alloys Exposed to Pulsed H/D Plasmas – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Duncan, R. Search for the Origins of the Anomalous Heat Effect (AHE) in Deuterium-loaded Palladium Driven Far From Equilibrium – No mention of Andrea Rossi. But he did say “Open Source versus Proprietary approaches.” Was he thinking of The Open Source LENR Project© at http://opensourcelenr.com/Dunn, J. LENR Market Development Technology of the (near) Future? – Now here is where things really start to get weird. Here are some comments from Mr. Dunn’s paper.
“Promising efforts of Rossi, Defkalion, Piantelli, others
•Uses minute amounts of Ni & H2, (some with catalysts)
•Low cost, simple, sustainable way to produce unlimited Heat, Steam, and (ultimately) power!
Key Players & products
•Leonardo Corp. – Andrea Rossi – E-Cat (several versions)
•Defkalion – Hyperion OEM – new product coming
Rossi’s ‘E-Cat’ Product family
•Small E-cats – 5-10KW – low temp. $500-700 boiler -home use
•Claims 1M pre-orders – (5-10,000 per day !) from Blogsite
•He may try to sell thru national outlets like Home Depot
•Large commercial systems – 1MW – $1.5M
•8 x20 ft. container w/controls & reactors
•50-100 E-cat low temp. modules in parallel
•Many claims (1-2 sold ?) but limited test data
•New 600C system – ‘Hot Cat’ – not official yet
•New design – 10KW High Temp – 600C Wall Temp
•Claims continuous run of 40 days ~ 20 units COP = 6
•Uses Ni, + H2 pellets Easier to control & refuel
•Continuous Input Energy needed + RF energy used
•Will provide data in ~ 30 days ? Many promises:
“When I say above 600 Celsius I mean exactly this: the temperature of the wall is
well above, as you will see from report we will publish Soon (matter of weeks)”.
Defkalion Green Technologies
•Hyperion product – OEM market focus
•Simpler design – 5 Reactors (vs. 9, orig)
•Focus on comm’l market (vs. residential)
•Basic Ni + H2, with plasma discharge
•5-25KW vs. 5-45 KW – wide temp. coolant
•New reactor and ‘trigger’ system
•Self start – COP >10 – High Temp. operation
•New lab and team – Pilot plant in Xanthi
•19 OEM’s in 15 countries – paying 40M Euro each
•International network of business, scientific & political partners
•Hyperion Launch scheduled for August – possibly
Early Market Options
•Sell Direct to end user – Rossi’s approach: large MW size and small E-cat units ? (1 MW & 10 kW)
•Sell home E-cat systems thru outlets like Home Depot
•Develop and market ‘basic reactor core’ for integrators to design into their products
•Large OEM partners – i.e. Defkalion – 19 OEMs will build factories and sell Hyperion products in 15 key countries
•Vertical Market focus – Multinationals like GE, Siemens +
•Develop IP portfolio and license – Nichenergy/Piantelli, Celani, Miley, Widom-Larsen, Ahern, Mizuno, others
•LENR offers great potential, but lots of further development, testing, and IP work remains
•Too much early ‘Hype’ and confusion – people misled by promises of Rossi/others, & lack of verified test data
•Need solid Understanding of LENR phenomena + process
•Address Issues of reliability, durability, safety, service
•Major market development and ‘mainstream’ media coverage & industry acceptance needed
•Market is poised – Technology & products unclear
•Many new Inventors, Developers & Marketing partners
•Future promising, Game Changing – could go ‘Viral’!”
Forsley, L. and P.A. Mosier-Boss. Nuclear Products Observed in the PdD Co-Dep System – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Fralick, G.C., et al. LENR at GRC – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Hagelstein, P.L. Modeling excess heat and related issues – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Hagelstein, P.L. Modeling Karabut’s collimated x-rays, and excess heat in the Piantelli NiH exp’t – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Miley, G.H. LENR Reactions Using Clusters – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Nagel, D.J. Challenges, Attractions and Possible Impacts of Commercial Generators Based on Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. – Nagel definitely was promoting Andrea Rossi.
A. Reproducibility and Controllability
It is well known that the reproducibility and control of LENR experiments have been, and continue to be major problems. Promises by Leonardo Corp and Defkalion Green Technologies to have products on the market in 2013 imply that they have overcome both reproducibility and controllability challenges. However, they have provided no information to make that case.
It must be noted that most of the items listed below have not been adequately validated. The list suffers from including too many still unproven assertions by Andrea Rossi of Leonardo Corporation and by Defkalion Green Technologies S. A., among other organizations and individuals. Both the lack of any validated theory to explain LENR, and what seem to be overly-optimistic views of LENR applications, offends many commentators. Lack of scientific understanding is one thing. A set of potential properties that seems too good to be true is something else. The compilation in this section deals with, and possibly contributes to the second of these perceived problems with LENR.
B. Low Costs
Rossi projects that costs for the purchase, operation and maintenance of LENR generators will be relatively inexpensive. Specific features include the following:
Here again, it is hard to be confident about the prospects for LENR sources of power and electricity. But, predictions have already been made. Rossi has asserted two particularly interesting numbers. The first was his expectation that electricity produced with his E-Cat units would cost only about 2 cents per kW-Hr. That is less than 20% of the cost of power in most of the US now. The numbers for production of thermal energy using E-Cats are even more compelling. Rossi estimated that the amount of nickel in a US five cent coin, that is, 1.25 grams, would produce energy equivalent to five barrels of oil. What if the nickel in the coin produced energy equal to “only” one barrel of oil? A barrel of oil costs roughly $100. Hence, the fuel cost of a LENR thermal source could be 20 x 100 = 2000 times less than oil.
Low Capital Cost.
Since LENR generators are not already on the market, it is difficult to project costs of units, even those now promised for sale during 2013. Defkalion have not yet commented on costs for their projected multi-kilowatt units. However, Rossi has stated that he expects the cost for his few kW units to be about $50 per kilowatt.
Low Cost for Refueling.
The cost for using LENR generators includes the outlays needed for fuel and for maintenance, in addition to amortization of the capital costs. Rossi expects that the E-Cat units will have to be refueled every six months at a cost of $10 per event. There has been little discussion of maintenance costs by Rossi or anyone.
Long Operational Lifetime.
The LENR generators now being planned for sale are relatively simple devices. They do require pumps for the working fluid, but it is conceivable that such pumps can be replaced as are fan motors in home HVAC units. If something as complex as an automobile can last for more than a decade, assuming proper care, it is plausible that LENR generators will remain useful for two or three decades. Rossi has asserted that lifetimes of his units might be 30 years. If a home LENR unit costs, say, $300 and lasts for 30 years, the average annual capital cost would be much less than the price of one ticket to a movie theater.
Easy Operation and Refueling.
The units now planned for the market apparently will require little training in their use and little attention during their operation. It remains to be seen if commercial LENR units can be controlled much as thermostats are now set by homeowners. The on-going development of means to store energy for solar and unsteady sources of energy might prove useful for storage of LENR energy. Rossi asserts that the E-Cat devices can be refueled simply by capable homeowners. That is, it may not be necessary to call in trained service personnel for refueling.
Long Times Between Refueling.
The currently projected times of six months between refueling of E-Cat systems might not seem very long. But, they are long compared to the times for refueling generators that burn hydrocarbons.
D. Safety Possibilities
The safety of power sources and energy transduction devices is an enduring concern. LENR generators, no matter how attractive their performance, must be safe. Focardi and Rossi reported energy gains of 415 in a web posted paper in March of 2010. Why are Leonardo and Defkalion now envisioning commercial devices with gains of “only” 5 to 30? It is probably because of safety concerns. That is, LENR generators with very high energy gains might not be adequately controllable for commercialization.
The control of the output of any power source is a necessary concern. It appears that LENR power sources will not offer near instantaneous responses to changes in input settings. That is no problem for a wide variety of expected applications, including heating and electricity generation. But, there remains the possibility that the control system for a LENR generator will fail and the system will run away, causing damage to property or injury to people. Rossi has stated that, if the temperatures get too high in one of his devices, they will ruin the ability of the key internal materials to produce energy and automatically shut-down energy production. Fail-safe operation, while expected, still demands clear demonstrations by use of LENR sources that are to be sold.
F. High Power Density
The density of power and energy in sources of heat or electricity are important parameters. The power and energy densities of LENR sources are attractive. This means that, for a given desired output power, the core of LENR generators can be small. Rossi has exhibited hardware with core volumes much smaller than one liter, which reportedly can put out several kilowatts of power. He expects such levels of power from a device about the size of a D cell battery.
Small systems are generally light in weight. The few kilowatt systems now being promised by Leonardo and Defkalion might have weights on the order of a few to a several tens of kilograms. Such systems are within the lifting capability of many adults.
With LENR, scalability can be achieved by the use of multiple lower-power units. This is the approach taken by Rossi, for example, with his nominal 1 MW unit in the 20 foot shipping container. It reportedly contained 52 modules, each with three E-Cat units. Currently, elementary LENR generators with powers of a few kilowatts are promised by Leonardo and Defkalion. Hence, achievement of systems with tens or hundreds of kilowatts thermal output are feasible. If it is practical to integrate 100 sub-units into an overall LENR generator, the ability to generate any power level from watts to multi-megawatts depends on the availability of the elementary units. Sub-units with powers from one watt to about ten kilowatts would enable production by LENR systems with powers over six orders of magnitude. Sub-units with powers below one kilowatt are not now in sight commercially.
Pike, R. Chemical Aspects of LENR. – Brief mention of Andrea Rossi.
As LENR moves away from the laboratory and toward the marketplace, it will necessarily leave the constraints of electrochemistry behind. There are two obvious directions that may be pursued in constructing LENR devices. The first of these is a fluidized bed-type system that utilizes fine metal particles suspended in a gaseous stream (H2 or D2, presumably). This appears to be the route chosen by the Italian and Greek companies that are claiming to be on the verge of LENR commercialization.
Popa-Simil, L. Roadmap to Fusion Battery A Novel Type of Nuclear Battery and Potential Outcomes and Applications – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Storms, E. An Approach to Explaining Cold Fusion – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
Tanzella, F.L., J. Bao, and M.C.H. McKubre. CMNS Research at SRI – No mention of Andrea Rossi.
So even though people in the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community sometimes use disclaimers when talking about Rossi like:
- “are claimed”
- “still need to be validated by third party tests”
- “not official yet”
- “people misled by promises of Rossi/others”
- “have not been adequately validated”
- etc., etc.
They still are giving Rossi unlimited exposure for his fraud and scam. If any reputable CF/LENR organization or group of people truly wanted mainstream news coverage and “respectability” they should not even mention Rossi anymore until he provides unquestionable proof.
Rossi has been at his e-Cat Farce, fraud, and scam since 2007, how long does it take to produce just one true independent 3rd party validation and proof of Rossi’s claims? When are you CF/LENR people going to wake up?
PART 2 – “ICCF-17”
The next major event in this chain of circumstances was the ICCF-17 meeting in August 2012.
Here again Rossi was absent, but in his place did any of the presenters promote Rossi and his e-Cat Farce, fraud, and swindle? The first question we need to ask and get answered is this; if they did talk about Rossi, and Rossi himself continues to refuse to present at any CF/LENR conference, why would anyone promote or even talk about him and his fraudulent e-Cat project?
Why are other people always doing Rossi’s dirty work for him?
Rossi has NO website for any of his many businesses. The only websites that Rossi have are his fake science blog, and his propaganda about his Petroldragon days. Rossi relies on other people and their websites to promote his e-Cat fraud and daily propaganda.
Rossi claims to have been selling e-Cats commercially since November 1, 2011, but Rossi has no company website that even gives the specifications of his product. There are websites that claim to be selling e-Cats but the specifications and technical details vary from website to website.
The same with the scientific claims; Rossi has only written with Focardi one paper and that was in 2010, and was purely for the purpose of trying to snowball the USPTO and the EPO into giving him a patent on his ridiculous cold fusion patent. Rossi relies on other people, on websites, at conferences, in publications and through other means to promote his make believe theories.
The same for all of the engineering claims about Rossi’s e-Cats and their development, all engineering claims are promoted by others, on websites, at conferences, in publications, and through other means.
The same goes for Rossi’s business plan, strategies, and marketing, past, present and future, all done by others, on their websites, at conferences, in publications, and through other means.
Why would all of these hundreds of people who are promoting Andrea Rossi, and his e-Cat fraud and Farce do so when Rossi has NEVER provided proof of even one of his claims by true independent 3rd parties?
Want to know why the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community have supported Andrea Rossi from the beginning and still do even to this very day? The answer will be made crystal clear in our next article after this one, stay tuned.
A large portion of the slides and papers from ICCf-17 are available at The New Energy Times here at this page, but not all. They are available to the public nowhere else:
Isn’t one of the purposes of these conferences to get the message out about CF/LENR by providing all of this information to the public? Or are they just in it for the money?
Here is another tidbit of advice from Gary Wright to the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community.
“If you truly had the whole world in mind when talking about how great CF/LENR is and can be, then openly publish free to all, every document and video from every ISCMNS, ICCF, and the CF/LENR community presentation, conference, and seminar. Or could you care less about getting CF/LENR out to the world, and are in it just for the money you can make today?”
Our website http://shutdownrossi.com/ is not a commercial website, it is for public education about scams and swindles, particularly Andrea Rossi and his e-Cat fraud. We claim “fair use” for all material used there.
The organization that brings you the International Conferences on “Cold Fusion,” ISCMNS , has this information on their website:
“ISCMNS Internet Library.
Updated by Bill Collis Sep 12 2012
Copyright ISCMNS 2012 but you may copy and paste reasonable references into your paper on a ‘fair use’ basis.”
17th International Conference on “Cold Fusion” – Presentations
Aug. 12-17, 2012, Daejeon, Korea
And we say, thank you for the permissions.
So what did all of the people have to say about Andrea Rossi and the e-Cat at ICCF-17? Read on.
ICCF-17 started with a workshop on August 10, 2012.
[KAIST EEWS Workshop (ICCF-17 Tutorial)] August 10, 2012 (Friday)
At the workshop there were presentations by:
– Prof. David J. Nagel
– Dr. Michael McKubre
– Dr. Mahadeva Srinivasan
– Prof. Peter L. Hagelstein
– Prof. Jean Paul Biberian
– Prof. Yeong E. Kim
– Prof. Sunwon Park
The following video is NOT hosted or stored on our website, the video is coming (streaming) straight from the ICCF-17 website, since that organization wants to be a supporter and part of the Rossi fraud and scam we think, using the “fair use” law, that you should be able to watch what they are saying about Rossi. The photos in this article are not links just stills from the videos.
Remember that the first few minutes of Nagel’s presentation includes the opening remarks by Mr. Park. This video is complete in its entirety.
Click on this link to watch the full and complete video presentation of Mr. Nagel’s speech at ICCF-17, where he is supporting and allying with, Mr. Andrea Rossi, including the comments by Mike McKubre.
Just what was the purpose of the workshop? Why would someone want to pay the extra $300 fee to attend?
From the ICCF-17 Tutorial-Brochure we read:
“Topics discussed in the workshop will cover experimental results, theories, applications of the technology, and commercialization. It also represents a great opportunity for government agencies, industry, investors, and academia to meet face-to-face with scientists and engineers.”
Since Mr. Nagel was the leader of this group let us look at what he said about Andrea Rossi and Defkalion during the workshop, he gave two talks at the workshop, here is the first one, – “Introduction to the Tutorial and low energy nuclear reaction (LENR).”
Mr. Nagel made the following comments during the first of his presentations:
Starting about 6:55, “Because right away there is a hand in the background says, when is Defkalion going to offer a product? When can I buy a Rossi e-cat?” Then Nagel talks about getting an e-Cat as soon as possible and having it tested.
Mr. Nagel then goes on to say “when to expect it?” he said you would be able to buy a home e-Cat next year, remember this conference was August 2012.
Mr. Nagel stated also; “knowing the people involved, on the Rossi side and the Defkalion side, Lewan and others, there is a real prospect that will be the case.” Nagel is talking here about being able to buy some type of commercial CF/LENR device next year.
Then Mr. Nagel starts talking about the business of CF/LENR, investing, and making money from science. Starting about 8:00 Nagel continues:
“Now the reason I include this in the presentation….is the state of LENR right now, it is predominantly science, but because of Rossi, because of Defkalion, and because of others it is transitioning through an engineering stage into a business stage….”
Here are some more slides from his presentation.
Then after talking about the CF/LENR field in general Nagel continues with his promotion of Rossi and Defkalion.
“The gas loading goes back to almost the beginning…but has become of much more interest now because Rossi, Defkalion and others…”
Nagel then talks about the Focardi and Rossi paper posted in 2010, claiming they were getting a gain of 80 to 415 over input, and continues with the comment that anytime you get a gain of over 20 you have something commercially viable you can sell.
Nagel then talks about why Rossi is only selling units with a gain of 6, and Nagel says he believes it is because high gains like 415 are not controllable. By implication then we can guess that Nagel believes Rossi has a controllable commercial device with a gain of at least 6.
Continuing on with his talk about commercialization of CF/LENR Nagel starts talking about companies involved in that. He says there is a tremendous commercial interest. He says the companies in the box are already dead. So back to Rossi he goes.
Here is a good example of why you should not believe and trust anything Mr. Nagel says about anything related to CF/LENR and especially Rossi. Look at the above picture very carefully. Now look at the picture Nagel is using for Piantelli! The others in the conference immediately called him on this. It is hilarious. The person claiming to be an expert on this subject, trying to bring in money from investors, cannot even use the correct pictures in his presentation!
Basically what Nagel is doing is wondering around the internet grabbing a picture there, a graph here, adding a few of his own words, and using the final product for his presentations, (talks that he requires people to pay good money to hear), trying to get people to invest in CF/LENR.
But now things get a little more interesting. Nagel starts talking about his involvement with Rossi. This whole segment starts about 43:25.
This what Nagel is saying now about Rossi:
“…Rossi apparently did experiments in 2007-2009 when he had the first demonstration that I am aware of, which was in the US, I worked with him on two demonstrations in 2010, both of which failed, with Rossi…”
Then he goes on to talk about Rossi’s 1MW system. See picture below.
After Nagel tells us that the 1MW unit was sold to an unknown customer, it is absolutely amazing to listen to Nagel talking about the leaks in the 1MW and how it was normal.
Then Nagel lists these companies as the current leading companies. Notice that Nagel is telling the potential investors that Rossi and Defkalion are promising kW-level home heating units for sale in 2013.
Now watch and listen what Nagel says about the picture above.
“This is a photograph from one of the tests that we did with Rossi in 2010….this is a home heating unit…”
Didn’t Nagel just say both of the tests in 2010 were failures? Why then, is he showing us this photograph? Nagel continues for a little while longer talking about commercialization with more about Rossi, then he ends a little while later.
Nagel then started a question and answer period and the first question was about the unknown customer, who did Rossi sell the first 1MW device to? Nagel said he did not have the answer and Mike McKubre stood up and said he could speak to that issue, this is what McKubre said:
“I have a tiny bit to say, the customer was military, and not US, so European, not US, so I have a suspicion which country it is but I don’t, but it is out of the European Union, the interest is military, and the military really has the greatest need for devices like this, because of the problem of supplying energy to, to eh, an active military zone.”
So it is clear by Mike McKubre’s own statement that he does not know which country. If he does not know which country, then how does he know it was sold to any military at all? How does he know it was even sold? Is McKubre just parroting what he has read or been told by others, who also don’t know? Or is he just making stuff up as he goes along, trying to make himself look good, having supposedly insider information? McKubre volunteered this information, he was not asked a question. This situation is just like the Rohner incident at TeslaTech.
Almost all of the question and answer period was about Rossi and about Defkalion just a little, with a little talk about tritium thrown in. We are not going to quote every comment about Rossi, just a few quick comments though.
Nagel really wanted to get the message across that Rossi’s claim of a 6 month charge of hydrogen/nickel was just his unsubstantiated claim.
Nagel also promoted Roger Green and his e-Cat site for a place where people can go to get a good comparative economic evaluation of an e-Cat. Please see our analysis of the Roger Green part in Rossi’s scam here on our site.
Jean Paul Biberian in his presentation spoke a little of Rossi and Defkalion using nickel.
All of the other talks were of a scientific nature, and since there is no science from Rossi or Defkalion these talks were about CF/LENR in general not commercialization.
The last presentation by Nagel was originally going to be given by Michael Melich but he was ill and could not attend. This talk by Nagel was just a “what is it going to be like” when we have commercial CF/LENR. For a salesman this part of their tutorial was what is called the “sizzle.” Remember the old saying “Sell The Sizzle Not The Steak”?
In this case they don’t even have a product – all they have is the sizzle!
If there ever was a thing called a snake oil salesman, David J. Nagel is a perfect example of one. The guy gives me the creeps just watching him speak, knowing that everything he is saying is pure baloney and hogwash.
[ICCF-17] August 13, 2012 (Monday)
[Opening Ceremony] Sunwon Park
At about the 5 minute mark into the opening speech of ICCF-17 Mr. Park talks about wanting to make one of the aspects of this conference the promoting of the commercial aspects of CF/LENR and get it out of the labs and into the real world so this technology can start to have a effect in helping to solve a lot of the world’s problems. A noble desire, but there are no people or companies who have commercial devices ready to market.
So any company who the organizing committee thought might have such a device was invited to attend and give a demonstration and/or presentation. The main question is why were the companies chosen, the ones invited to attend by the committee? Not one company in the world has a working commercial version of a CF/LENR device, NOT ONE, either in the lab or in the marketplace.
So – since NO company has a working commercial device, why does the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community think that having conferences all over the world, telling everyone how great it is going to be when we all have free energy devices, think that will stimulate the flow of money into the companies they have identified as needing funds?
The more I watch what the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community is doing year by year the more I realize their real goal more than likely is just the opposite of what they claim. They have been very good at keeping the technology from becoming a reality in the everyday world for 23 years. Everything they do seems to be designed to keep it that way for the foreseeable future.
For instance here are some things they SHOULD be doing.
- Refuse to endorse, promote, or allow any company to be involved in any of the conferences or publications of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community who claim to have working CF/LENR devices with excess energy generation over some threshold, say 500 watts, unless the company provides proof by 3rd party verification of their claims.
- Refuse to endorse, promote, or allow any company to be involved in any of the conferences or publications of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community who claim to have commercial CF/LENR devices unless that company provides proof of their claims by true 3rd party verification.
- Refuse to allow any mention of, endorsement of, promotion of, publications by, etc. in any of the conferences, proceedings, or publications by the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community; about any company or person who claim to have working CF/LENR devices with excess energy generation over some threshold, say 500 watts, or claim to have commercial CF/LENR devices for sale unless the company provides absolute proof by true independent 3rd parties verification of their claims.
But then again:
- Maybe it really is the goal of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community NOT to be taken seriously.
- Maybe it really is the goal of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community to keep everything under wraps for another 23 years.
- Maybe it really is the goal of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community to have so much fraud in the CF/LENR field that no mainstream writer and publisher can put out a story about CF/LENR without talking about the frauds and scams.
- Maybe it really is the goal of the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community to keep serious CF/LENR papers out of mainstream scientific journals.
- Just what IS their goal?
One thing the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community needs to keep in mind, is the old saying, “the bigger they are the harder they fall.” This is going to be especially true when Rossi crashes. The more articles and talks that go out about Rossi and the e-Cat, just means that when Rossi crashes, the more people will know about him, and more and greater damage will happen to the CF/LENR field than happened in 1989, and it will be much harder to climb out of the hole this time.
We don’t complain much about the major players in the ISCMNS and the CF/LENR community, but this time we just cannot keep silent.
What the people in charge of ICCF-17 have done is completely wrong and misleading. Please let us explain.
Most of the time with a conference like ICCF-17 this is what happens.
- A document is created that lists all of the speakers, and abstracts of the speeches.
- A presentation is given with slides to go along with the talk.
- After the conference a lot of times people also publish a paper that is basically about the same subject as the presentation and slides but with a little more detail.
- After the conference is over most of the time a video of each speech is put online or made available for download or by mail on a CD/DVD along with a PDF or PP document of the slides.
So you ask what is it that we are upset about? Good question.
There are no slides or PDF of the [Plenary Lecture] by Frank Gordon anywhere. So every time this lecture is mentioned there is just a copy of the preprint paper, by Gordon and Park. Now this preprint paper only covers some of what was talked about. Wait until you read what Frank Gordon actually said during his Plenary Lecture.
The following video is NOT hosted or stored on our website, the video is coming (streaming) straight from the ICCF-17 website, since that organization wants to be a supporter and part of the Rossi fraud and scam we think, using the “fair use” law, that you should be able to watch what they are saying about Rossi. The photos in this article are not links just stills from the videos.
Click on this link to watch the full and complete video presentation.
From the preprint paper only – [Plenary Lecture] Dr. Frank Gordon
“Cold Fusion-From the Laboratory to the World: Setting the Stage for ICCF-17,” Sunwon Park (KAIST, Korea) and Frank Gordon(SPAWAR (retired), USA)
“Abstract — The objective of ICCF-17 is to allow international groups of scientists to present their data to further the collective understanding of scientists working in the field and so that skeptical members of the mainstream scientific community, the media, and the public will see the evidence that “cold fusion” is real. Indeed, several groups are currently developing commercial products that produce energy using the “cold fusion” phenomena. Ultimately, the reality of cold fusion will be determined by the public acceptance of commercial devices. People and companies who continue to deny the existence of cold fusion will become irrelevant as the applications are placed into service.”
“III. CURRENT STATUS
Within the last two years, the pace of development has increased, stimulated by new claims that a cell using Nickel powder in a high temperature Hydrogen gas environment could reliably produce significant excess heat. Although the initial claims have not been independently verified, multiple groups are reporting similar results using similar cell designs. At least one of the groups hopes to have a commercial product available by the end of 2012. These new results have reinvigorated research and new groups of scientists are joining in the race searching for a new energy source.”
IV. ICCF-17 OBJECTIVES
ICCF-17 promises to be a very exciting conference. Most of the groups who are known to be working toward commercial products will attend the conference and make presentations. In most cases, this conference will be the first public presentation of their results and plans for the future.
The first objective of ICCF-17 is to carry on the tradition of the previous ICCF conferences to allow international groups of scientists to present their data to further the collective understanding of scientists working in the field. The second objective is to end the misunderstanding and the skepticism on the cold fusion of the mainstream scientific community, the media, and the public by showing the evidence that “cold fusion” is real. And the final objective is to start an international concerted effort to expedite the commercialization of energy generation devices based on LENR to solve the immediate energy and environmental problems of the world and to prevent the possibility of misusing the LENR for the destructive purposes.
But Gordon had a lot more to say then just what was in his paper, let’s look at some of his speech that didn’t make it into the paper itself.
Gordon is calling CF/LENR the Mistress, we don’t get it. First he told a joke about a mistress, in the context of a woman in an extramarital affair. Then he started calling CF/LENR a mistress? Are the leaders of the CF/LENR community losing it? But on to his other comments.
Speaking of the last slide shown above Gordon said that Piantelli decided not to present at this conference, and then Gordon started talking about Rossi, this is what he said.
“We invited Andrea Rossi, he declined to come however he recorded about a week ago, that he will have an announcement or will some announcements in September and since that time I believe there actually is projections of a meeting scheduled in Switzerland in early to mid September he confirmed that he is working at high temperature I believe the number that he used is 1000 degrees C. We don’t know anymore about what his input energy is, all of the things that this group would like to know, we don’t know.”
Why would they ask a known fraud and scammer to present at one of their conferences? After the dog and pony show Rossi put on in Zurich, and the fact there have been no 3rd party verification or independent reports of Rossi’s claims, I bet Mr. Gordon is, or should be, feeling mighty foolish by now.
Then speaking of the meeting agenda for Friday, Gordon says:
“Friday this will be a first, on Friday we will have a commercialization discussion. In previous years we were premature to have a discussion on commercialization.”
And what has changed, but a lot of unsubstantiated claims?
So let us go to Friday and see what they had to say about commercialization of CF/LENR, remembering that NO person or company has a commercial ready device in the lab or in the market, that we are aware of.
[ICCF-17] August 17, 2012 (Friday)
[FrM1-1] Dr. Thomas W. Grimshaw
“Public Policy Planning for Broad Deployment of Cold Fusion (LENR) for Energy Production,” Thomas W. Grimshaw (The University of Texas, USA)
empirical – “derived from or relating to experiment and observation rather than theory”
III. THE CHANGING LANDSCAPE OF CF/LENR
“…..Recent empirical advances, particularly by Andrea Rossi, appear to have improved the prospects for CF/LENR dramatically. Rossi conducted several apparently successful demonstrations of CF/LENR reactions in 2011 in Bologna, Italy. The reactors, referred to by Rossi as “energy catalyzers” (“E-cats”), have been claimed to produce heat energy by exposing powdered nickel to hydrogen gas under pressure. Rossi’s work is founded on previous experiments by Francesco Piantelli in the mid to late 1990s. A significant feature of the E-cat is its use of the common elements nickel and hydrogen, in contrast to the less common and more expensive palladium and deuterium used in most past CF/LENR experiments.
Demonstrations of “table-top” single units were put on by Rossi in January through early October 2011, leading up to a multiple-reactor demonstration in late October. All of these tests utilized the produced energy for steam generation. The multi-reactor demonstration, which took place in Bologna on October 28, 2011, was made with 52 modules (each containing three reactors) mounted on racks in a shipping container. During a 5.5 hour test, apparently with no input power, the total energy produced was claimed to be 2635 kWh, which is equivalent to the energy content of about 72 gallons of gasoline. Rossi discontinued demonstrations after October and now claims to be working on commercialization of the E-cat technology.
During the same timeframe that Rossi has been developing his E-cat technology, Defkalion Green Technologies (DGT), a firm based in Greece, has been independently developing similar units based on the Rossi reactor design. Rossi and DGT had been working in partnership in the first half of 2011, but Rossi terminated the relationship in August. DGT has continued its work independently to develop its own line of energy catalyzer units, which they call Hyperions, in various sizes for different applications. The units utilize a “singlekernel” and “multi-kernel” (containing nine single kernels) design. DGT issued a press release in January 2012 inviting independent testing of the Hyperion units and is advertising that Hyperion units will be offered for sale in 2012.
Following the apparently successful demonstrations by Rossi and the DGT advances, several more CF/LENR (orrelated) developments have been announced, including Miley’s LENUCO, Schwartz’s NANOR, Brillouin’s CECR, and Blacklight Power’s CIHT. Most of these units, like Rossi’s and DGS’s, are still empirically-based, indicating that a clear understanding of the underlying mechanism is not yet a certainty. The steadily growing evidence that CF/LENR is a real phenomenon, and the increasing likelihood that it will be broadly deployed as a major new source of energy, make it essential that proactive public policy planning to deal with its secondary impacts be initiated as soon as possible.”
So now that brings us to the presentation of Tyler at ICCF-17. First let’s look at his abstract.
From this document “Program-Abstracts” we read:
“This presentation attempts to analyze whether or not commercial LENR is real and when/if products are coming to market. This analysis is targeted at executive level decision and policy makers as well as persons new to the field or those seeking an update on the latest progress. I have made every attempt explain this subject in laymen’s terms and keep my personal opinion to a minimum, instead focusing on conveying the facts as they are and letting the reader reach their own conclusions.
I have performed this analysis using a fact-based approach based on verifiable data and credible sources and highlighting any circumstantial or yet unsubstantiated evidence that is shown. At the conclusion of the presentation; I briefly discuss some of the possible outcomes related to a commercial LENR device coming to market in the near term and its potentially unprecedented affect on our world.
My background is that of an Electrical Engineer/MBA and founder/CEO of a successful technology startup. I previously served as an Engineer with Intel Corp. and as Management Consultant (High Tech) with McKinsey & Co. I do not have a deep history with cold fusion/LENR and this presentation offers a fresh look at the subject that began some 15 months ago, after I was informed about Andrea Rossi’s initial public LENR demonstrations.”
Tyler said, “This analysis is targeted at executive level decision and policy makers.” We say, “Anyone who makes any decision of any kind based on the purely one sided, poorly researched, blatantly false, propaganda, that Tyler calls “facts” is a fool and idiot.”
Next we will look at Tyler’s preprint paper.
“So is commercial LENR the real deal? In order to answer this question, I break it down as follows:
THERE ARE 3 FACTS YOU MUST ANALYZE IN ORDER TO BELIEVE THAT LENR IS AN IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL GAME CHANGER IN ENERGY:
• Fact 1. LENR is a real, proven energy creating reaction (?)
• Fact 2. LENR has been scaled and controlled to reach commercial power generating levels (?)
• Fact 3. Scaled/Controlled LENR is far superior to all existing forms of energy (?)
With this framework, I analyze each of the three hypotheses, attempting to prove or disprove it by reviewing the key evidence we have available going back to 1989. I include a personal scoring of where I believe we really are for each of the three hypotheses in order to present an overall position on the question of commercial readiness.
High Level Presentation Outline:
FACT 1 EVIDENCE: LENR IS A REAL ENERGY CREATING MECHANISM
A. Long and rapidly growing list of credible people and organizations worldwide affirming LENR is real (at least at lower power) with strong affirmation from NASA, US Navy, US Department of Defense, National Instruments, European Directorate-General and leaders at respected universities.
B. Some 1700 peer reviewed article, thousands of reported replications and testing of LENR worldwide since initial discovery in 1989.
C. Ongoing or recently completed LENR demos at MIT, University of Missouri, University of Bologna and by scientists in Rome, Italy.
FACT 2 EVIDENCE: LENR HAS BEEN SCALED AND CONTROLLED TO REACH COMMERCIAL POWER GENERATING LEVELS
A. LENR has been maturing and scaling up in net energy creation and duration since 1989. This has accelerated with the introduction of Ni/H systems where power levels may have now reached commercial power generation levels.
B. There are some dozen companies that have been formed with the intent to commercialize LENR. Several are claiming to have been able to scale and control the reaction; four of them (Leonardo, Deflation, Brillouin and NicHenergy) have announced plans to launch commercial LENR energy products in 2012/13. Three of the firms (Rossi, Defkalion & Brillouin) are also claiming to have reached higher temperatures, potentially sufficient for direct electricity generation; however, these claims have to be fully validated.
C. There is growing circumstantial evidence and an increasing number credible persons acknowledging higher power scaling and that full control has been achieved.
FACT 3 EVIDENCE: SCALED/CONTROLLED LENR IS FAR SUPERIOR TO ALL EXISTING FORMS OF ENERGY GENERATION
A. Powerful – LENR reportedly has an energy density that is a factor 100,000-10,000,000 times greater than today’s combustion processes (oil, coal, NG) and reportedly higher than today’s commercial fission reactions. Some LENR devices are now claimed to be operating at 600-1000C (Rossi, DGT), which could allow for direct replacement of nearly all existing power generation sources in electrical generating plants globally.
B. Green & Safe – LENR is believed to be 100% green, safe and carbon free. LENR is a nuclear reaction, however it does not require uranium/plutonium, has no nuclear waste byproducts, operates at relatively low temperatures and appears to have no harmful effects or safety issues like fission based energy.
C. Limitless – The current fuel for LENR, small amounts of nickel & hydrogen, is nearly limitless, using one of the most abundant metals along with the most abundant element. No combustion process takes place, rather, it appears the hydrogen is merged with nickel and transmuted into copper + energy. LENR also appears possible using metals other than Ni and Pd.
D. Low Cost, Small & Scalable – The LENR devices now said to be coming to market are similar and appear to be very low cost (estimated <$100 BOM/reactor). They appear to be small (12”x12”x6”), relatively easy to manufacture, highly efficient, reliable with no moving parts and simple to operate, requiring the replacement of a Ni/H fuel cartridge every 6 months. It appears (IMHO) that high power LENR reactors could be mass produced by the millions.
At the conclusion of the presentation, I offer a potential scoring of the reality and timing of the initial question –
Is Commercial LENR the real deal? I also briefly discuss what would happen if commercial LENR is a reality in the near term and its potentially unprecedented affect on our world.”
Since Tyler’s online document is constantly changing, we thought you might like to know some of what he actually said at the ICCF-17 conference. Therefore we will now look at Tyler’s video of his presentation.
The following video is NOT hosted or stored on our website, the video is coming (streaming) straight from the ICCF-17 website, since that organization wants to be a supporter and part of the Rossi fraud and scam we think, using the “fair use” law, that you should be able to watch what they are saying about Rossi.
This video is complete in its entirety. Click on this link to watch the full and complete video presentation of Mr. Tyler’s speech at ICCF-17, where he is supporting and allying with, Mr. Andrea Rossi, including the comments by Peter and Larry at the end in the Q & A.
[FrM2-1] Mr. Tyler van Houwelingen
“Is Commercial Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR) the Real Deal?,” Tyler van Houwelingen (AzulStar, Inc., USA)
“…so my skills really are with technology, strategy and as an advisor to CEOs and investors. And so when I started putting this presentation together I really had no expectation of anyone seeing it but a few friends of mine. I built it myself to check my own sanity, to see if, is what I am seeing is this, could this be real? And later on I made it for some of my friends who are heavily invested in some alternate energy companies and I thought this might be relevant for them.”
The first part of the presentation was just Tyler explaining his slides, we will start here at about 18:10 into his talk in the section called “claimed higher power LENR reactors”:
“…so I start with Celani with his moving towards higher power…”
Speaking of Celani, “…so I do say this is a higher power device…”
“…so all of these companies, all of these products are claiming to have higher power, again that’s definitive by any means, OK this is where the speculation comes in and are these guys crazy? It doesn’t appear Celani is crazy, um is are they real, ha ha ha.”
So that brings us to the last part of section 2C.
Page 1-2 of 3.
“…this is where the speculation starts. I am not saying these are facts…I really do my best to make this all about the facts…”
“…we should expect that kilowatt power is going to come, I put 0 to 10 years, and I think that is a very conservative investment…maybe Rossi doesn’t have it…”
Speaking of Rossi, “…very much too good to be true but it is really hard to rule them out…”
“…again it is not evidence of anything it is just circumstantial evidence for you guys to look at. And again there is also circumstantial evidence against Rossi and higher power, this is my disclaimer, go to http://shutdownrossi.com or look at what Steven Krivit has to say, you can get all day the other side of the story.”
“All but a couple people who attended Rossi’s demos in 2011 have been convinced, and none of them are claiming it’s an outright fraud, not one, other than Steven Krivit who was at a demo, but was wrong.”
Speaking of Rossi;
“He is reported to have been a wealthy man, and if he is not telling the truth, I believe at this point it is the largest energy scam of all time. Its, its gone pretty far, right, with his event in Zurich in two weeks, you know if it is an energy scam it is interesting because it would be the largest of all time, he’s got no other end game I believe, it’s either jail or commercial success. We shall see.”
“In February 2012 the University of Bologna came out and said they are still willing to work with Rossi, even though their first contract was cancelled, and the reports and again these are un-validated that came out last week, saying that they did do testing last month of the hot e-Cat. And Rossi is saying now in October they are going to do, the University as a official capacity is going to do testing of the (catf?).”
Page 3 of 3, was all about Tyler gushing on about Rossi.
There is no need for us to quote every comment by Tyler about Rossi, more telling is some of the comments directed to Tyler at the end of his speech.
Starting about 30:50 the comments started. The first to comment was Peter L. Hagelstein:
“Interesting presentation, I heard presentations something like this before…and I walk away scratching my head a little bit, in terms of facts some of the things that you presented I might disagree with a little bit…one of these days somebody ought to put in some time and effort to get a version of this thing that actually is correct.”
Then Tyler asked Peter, “my email is on there…send me the changes.”
Peter, “Well it would probably start from the beginning and include almost everything all the way to the end…”
Larry, “I share Peter’s dismay over the accuracy of this and your statement these are facts, just because people collect opinions and stuck them on the web does not make them facts.”
PART 3 – Conclusions
We are not going to talk about every speaker or every display that promoted Andrea Rossi at ICCF-17. There was much more than what we used here in this article. What is more important is that every poster and presentation had to be approved by ISCMNS/ICCF-17 before it was accepted.
Not only that, but Rossi himself was invited to put on a presentation there. What does that mean? It means that the whole ISCMNS/ICCF-17 organization believes in, supports, encourages, allies with, and promotes Andrea Rossi and his farce, scam, fraud, and swindle.
And most of the leaders of the CF/LENR community are members of ISCMNS, the group that puts on most of the CF/LENR shows, symposiums, and conferences. Are you starting to get the picture?
Everyone in the CF/LENR community really needs to step back and look at what they are doing.
The time has come and passed for everyone in the CF/LENR community to actively campaign against having any speakers or presentations anywhere, that talk about Rossi until such time that multiple true independent 3rd parties have verified his claims. The crash is coming, will you be able to stand? Or will people say about you – that you were one of those disciples of Rossi, one of those blind believers and supporters of his fraud and scam.
What do you think your bosses, your funding sources, your science writers, your peers, and your universities will think of you after Rossi crashes and you are shown to be connected with, and supporters of Rossi and his fraud and scam?
Joy & Peace
November 29, 2012